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Post by Angel Martinez on Jul 14, 2013 19:32:36 GMT -5
When I first started reading this book I was a little confused but when I got farther into the book it started to get more interesting Holden is a very interesting character because he is failing out of school and is afraid to tell his parent's. If I was in this situation I would tell my parents because if you wait for somebody else to give them the news I would be in bigger trouble, so the smartest thing to do was just tell his parents but instead he wanted to run away from school and think his problems would go away. He faces many obstacles when he ran away but he got threw it.
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Post by Angel Martinez on Jul 14, 2013 19:35:01 GMT -5
When I first started reading this book I was a little confused but when I got farther into the book it started to get more interesting Holden is a very interesting character because he is failing out of school and is afraid to tell his parent's. If I was in this situation I would tell my parents because if you wait for somebody else to give them the news I would be in bigger trouble, so the smartest thing to do was just tell his parents but instead he wanted to run away from school and think his problems would go away. He faces many obstacles when he ran away but he got threw it.
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Post by Mica Martinez on Jul 14, 2013 23:04:41 GMT -5
So in the first few chapters Holden is getting closer to Jane and his feelings for her seem to be getting stronger. He talks about her in such a caring way and she is always on his mind. He says she is one of the few people that he can talk to about Allie because she listens and actually cares. I think this may be one of the reasons why he likes her so much, because he can actually be real with her. Holden is always talking about how much he hates "phonies" which I think is somewhat ironic since he seems to be one himself. He is constantly hiding how he actually feels and is always lying. I think he is very lonely and we see that when he starts conversations with strangers like the taxi driver and piano player. We see it even more when he pays five dollars to have Sunny sent to his room and the date with a girl he doesn't care much for. (Like Erin said) I think Holden's main problem is the fact that he feels so alone and constantly needs someone there for him, yet he always pushes people away. It is almost as if he is afraid of getting to close to someone because he thinks he'll just get hurt in the end.
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Post by Nia Personette on Jul 15, 2013 13:39:09 GMT -5
Okay... so I'm definitely way way waaayyyy too late with this but I don't have a group yet and I started reading this book, so sorry everyone but I'll keep up now! Soooo this book is really interesting, and I really like Holden even if other people don't! It's not even what Erin said, that she's respecting him, I just sort of like him and definitely respect him with how he has to get through life and whatnot. He's introverted and I guess a little socially awkward but when he feels like people won't judge him for how he acts or what he says he's a lot more comfortable. I guess we'll just see how he turn out, but I think this book shows great character development!! You weren't meant to immediately like him, but maybe understand him a bit!
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Post by Jourdyn Scott on Jul 15, 2013 14:19:33 GMT -5
Sorry I haven't posted yet, i have been pretty sick.
in the beginning of these chapters Holden talks about Jane. I think this is because he really loves her. I also agree with Erin when she said she appreciated how much Holden respected girls. I feel like Holden does want to force someone to do something, because he wants to be in an equal, loving, committed relationship. He shows his respect toward sunny when he just asks to talk. I found it funny when Holden asked the cab driver where the ducks at central park flew to in the winter. I find this interesting because he is so intelligent I would not expect him to ask such a child like question. My favorite part of the book was when Holden told us he was atheist because the only person he liked in the Bible is Jesus. I believe Holden is mad at God, therefore he doesn't want to believe in him. I think Holden thought that God let him down when Allie died, and he thinks that if God was as great as they say then he wouldn't have killed his favorite person in the world.
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Post by Hayden Doyle on Jul 15, 2013 16:47:39 GMT -5
OK so due to some weird technical difficulties the post I posted 2 days ago didn't post. I have no clue why, but from now on I am going to save my posts. Anyway, this book is still really depressing. Holden's whole personality is depressing and it's starting to get annoying. Like how he is always talking about movies, but when he does he is always putting them down. Yet you can tell he has seen quite a few movies. I don't think someone who doesn't like the movies would keep going back. Maybe he is jealous of his brother because he is in Hollywood, so he talks bad about movies but deep down he really enjoys them. His other siblings have been such a big part in his life, it would be no surprise if D.B. is too. In ch.13 he talks about how he thinks of himself as yellow. This really shows the age of the book, because no one uses the word yellow anymore and I had to go and look up what it means. Apparently it means you are a coward, which leads me to believe that maybe his self esteem isn't what I thought it was. I still really don't know where this book is going, but it will be interesting to find out.
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Post by Jourdyn Scott on Jul 18, 2013 14:34:17 GMT -5
Now Holden has made a date with a girl he doesn't really like just to pass some time. I think Holden fears rejection from Jane if he was to ask her. Holden doesn't want to lose something important to him so he takes himself out of the position to get let down again. Holden went to the record store to buy Pheobe this really great record, and then he goes to the park to try to find her. When he cannot find her there, he goes to look for her in the museum, but then he remembered it was a Sunday and she wouldn't be there. He decided to go anyway. I believe Holden in trying to cover up some of the pain he feels from Allie's passing with Pheobe. Holden picked a movie that he knew he would hate just because he knew she would like it. I believe Holden showed us he can do nice things for other people. After the movie Holden took Sally iceskating. After iceskating Holden and Sally went to a bar. It was there that Holden asked Sally to run away with him so they could start their lives together. I thought this was very strange considering he really didnt like Sally that way. Sally said no and he got pretty mad. He later made a date for drinks with an old buddy, and after drinks he went for a walk through Central Park where he dropped phoebes record. Holden felt really bad, but he decided to keep the broken pieces and give them to Pheobe. I think this is a thoughtful thing to do so she knows he at least tried to do something for her. Later that night it was really cold outside, so Holden decided to go home and sneak into his parents house. At this point I think Holden is tired of hiding from his parents, and he isn't afraid of his punishment awaiting when he returns.
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Post by Nia Personette on Jul 18, 2013 16:04:06 GMT -5
Holden is developing as a character, but I've noticed that most of his cynicism hasn't gone away! I feel like he might even have a bit of a victim or superiority complex, as he's always talking down to others, or at least thinking down, and not appreciating them, but doesn't really do it to himself. That said, I still don't dislike him. He's a very dynamic and round character!
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Post by Hayden Doyle on Jul 18, 2013 21:12:13 GMT -5
I don't have much to say about the latest chapters, except that Holden is spinning more and more out of control mentally. He is talking about getting pneumonia and dying, and how his family would feel if he died. It just seems like every chapter he gets more and more depressed and lonely, and now he is going to try to talk to his sister. Everyone he has talked to so far he hasn't made very happy, so it'll be interesting to see what happens when he talks to Phoebe.
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Post by Mica Martinez on Jul 18, 2013 22:34:46 GMT -5
Holden seems to be going more and more down hill in these next few chapters. At first we see his caring side when he buys a record for Phoebe and thinks about how caring the nuns were from the previous chapter, but later we see his bad side. He begins to be getting moody when he is on his date with Sally. In the beginning he thinks he is in love with her and wants to run away with her, but eventually it ends up with him calling her a "royal pain in the ass" after she rejects his idea. I think this shows how sensitive and moody Holden can be. After leaving Sally in tears, he gets drunk and starts hitting on random girls again. Throughout the story we see how desperate Holden is to find love. He seems like he really likes Jane, but for some reason, he goes on dating girls like Sally. I wonder why he doesn't just go for Jane instead of going out with all the random girls he barely even likes. Later he walks near a pond and thinks about Allie's death. He has very vivid memories of laying flowers on the grave and how much it bothered him.
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Post by Mica Martinez on Jul 18, 2013 22:44:04 GMT -5
I accidentally posted that last post too early (Don't ask how that happens)
I think this all goes back to the reason why he is the way he is. He starts reminiscing about when he would visit the museum. He talks about how he wishes he could save everything in a glass case like they do in a museum. I think this shows how Holden can not let go of his past. He is always going to carry the memories of Allie's death with him. Maybe if he tried to let go of his past and accept what happened, he wouldn't be as depressed as he is.
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Post by Angel Martinez on Jul 19, 2013 13:44:03 GMT -5
Chapters 16-20 was the most exciting part for me I really enjoyed the book once I got there because that's when Holden faces many off his problems and he has to learn how to get past them and other stuff.
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Post by Erin Yen on Jul 19, 2013 20:45:34 GMT -5
Unfortunately, my internet connection was nonexistent last night, and I was unable to post (Mica, you posted early and I posted late! It's kind of ironic, isn't it?).
Ok, So I agree with Mica that Holden's affinity with the museum shows that he cannot let go of his past, especially the part about Allie. To take it a little further, I think that he's still angry with himself, he thinks that he should have been able to save Allie; and that anger with himself causes his negative outlook and depression. I think that's why he keeps going out with girls like Sally, when in reality he likes Jane. I think that he's afraid of being lonely, but he's also afraid of getting too close to someone so he compromises and goes out with girls he doesn't really like. I also think that he liked the little boy and the family that was coming back from Church because they represent normality, maybe what his family would have been like if Allie hadn't died. I think he is so affectionate towards his other siblings because the loss of one just makes him hang on tighter to the others. I believe the reason he doesn't like shows and movies is because they are fake, meant just to entertain, and he dislikes fake - fake scenarios, fake people, ect. Finally, I think he gets drunk for the same reason most people get drunk - to escape their problems - and even though he knows it's not going to lead to anything good, he just does it to kind of wipe his brain of all the painful thoughts. That's all I could really get from this chapter, sorry again for being late! Hopefully it doesn't happen again!
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Post by Nia Personette on Jul 23, 2013 16:47:25 GMT -5
This book was great! I feel like Holden's future now is definitely looking up. He hasn't lost all of his cynicism and his life isn't magically perfect, but he might start trying to make it better. The tone didn't really change, so I'm not sure if the ending is supposed to be a typical "happy" ending, because there's still a lot of things that are wrong in his life. His outlook and perspective haven't changed much, but he's just started wondering if he should try to change them himself. I think it was a great ending to a great book.
We don't get to see if all of his relationships with everyone get much better, but the ending makes me think that they probably will. I'm really glad I read this book actually, it was a lot better than I thought it was going to be!
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Post by Hayden Doyle on Jul 23, 2013 18:42:43 GMT -5
I am very happy with the ending of this book, mainly because I thought Phoebe was going to somehow die, and the book would be more depressing than ever. It wasn't the best ending ever, but it at least left us feeling that Holden might be happier in life. The main problem I have with the ending is there was no climax. I kept waiting for Holden to hit rock bottom, but he never really got there. Other than that I have no gripes with the ending. All in all it was a solid book, but I'm probably never going to read it again due to the fact that it is so depressing.
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